Difference Between Talmud and Torah
Babylonian Talmud
Non-Jewish people often confuse two important words in Jewish history: the Talmud and the Torah. They sounds vaguely similar, and may sound like they stem from the same concept, when, in fact, these are two very different things.
The Talmud is the most vital manuscript of the conventional Judaism religion. It is literally the Hebrew word for “learning,” and is sometimes referred to as the six orders of the Mishnah. The Talmud contains the history of the Jewish religion, as well as their laws and beliefs. It is the basic tool for learning the ethics behind the customs of their religion.
Torah, on the other hand, is the Hebrew word for “instruction.” The Torah is most widely known as the five books of Moses. Another word for Torah is “Pentateuch,” which is more widely used in some Jewish nations. Like the Talmud, the Torah is also a very religious manuscript. They both contain religious writings important to the Jewish community. The Torah is basically the Hebrew Bible – it contains the 613 commandments, and is the whole context of Jewish laws and traditions.
Some people may say that the Torah is the Old Testament. To the Jewish people, the concept of the Old Testament is not widely used. It is, in fact, unfamiliar for them. There is also no such thing as the New Testament in the scriptures of the Jews; the books that Christians call the New Testament are not part of their scriptures. “Tanakh” is the Jewish term for the written Old Testament. Most people from find it hard to distinguish between the two Jewish concepts just from their definitions. The key difference is that the Torah mainly describes the initial five chapters of the Hebrew Bible (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy). To put it simply, the Torah comprises the entirety of Jewish law and tradition. Under Jewish beliefs, Moses received the Torah as a written text alongside an oral version or commentary. This oral section is now what the Jews call the Talmud. The Talmud depicts the primary codification (by Rabbi Judah the Prince) of the Jewish decrees.
Judaism Torah
The oral Torah, or the Talmud, explains the meaning behind the written texts so it is easier for people to apply them in their daily lives. The scriptures are a vital part of how they should live. All the oral traditions were compiled and called the Mishnah. Over the years, more commentaries are added to the Mishnah – these are referred to as the Gemara. There are two kinds of Talmud: the Babylonian Talmud (the more complete one and more widely used of the two) and the Jerusalem Talmud.
The Jewish law being practiced by modern Jews is mostly based on the Torah; a lot of people actually say that the Torah is the most important reference in the Jewish community. However, Jews still base some of their practices in Rabbinic Judaism on the Talmud.
All in all, the commentary of the sages, including their writings within the debate between Jews about the Torah, is what we now call the Talmud. Its purpose is to help people follow the rules of the Torah.
Summary:
1.The Talmud is the most vital manuscript of conventional Judaism.
2.The Talmud is the basic tool for learning the ethics behind the customs of Judaism.
3.The Torah is most widely known as the five books of Moses.
4.The Torah is the entirety of Jewish laws and traditions.
5.There is also no such thing as the New Testament in the scriptures of the Jews.
6.Moses received the Torah as a written text alongside an oral version or commentary.
7.This oral section is now what the Jews call the Talmud.
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Read the plot against Christianity by Elizabeth Dillinger.Eye opening!
The Torah– the five books of Moses– is not just “also” a holy book like the Talmud. It is the core around which the Talmud is constructed, and the hours that Jews spend studying the Talmud are spent only because the Talmud is considered a necessary guide to understanding what the Torah says.
That is precisely what the original author just said. You merely stated the same thing in a different way. Just FYI. If you read her entire article, you will see this to be true.
Judaism makes Jews slave to the Law. Jesus, whom Jews rejected, replaced the Law with Grace. If you have the Spirit of God in your spirit, then your heart will be filled with love – love to God and all men and you will be free from all bondages.
Very well put, sir.
Your statement:
“The Talmud is the most vital manuscript of the conventional Judaism religion.” perfectly examples the problem.
On one hand, the Talmud is a great document for study of the Jewish history. On the other hand, the Talmud has become a man created idol of sorts for much of the Jewish nation. (Ps 115:4 & Ez14:3 & 4)
1) The concept that “Moses received the Torah via a written text alongside an oral version or commentary.” was a premise created by the Pharisees. There is no verse within the Torah let alone the entire Tanakh that supports that premise.
2) The original Mishnah (commentaries on the Torah also called “The traditions of the Elders”) was lost with the destruction of 2nd Temple in 70 ce. The basis for the current Talmud was a Rabbi putting things back together from memory and other commentaries of the original Mishnah. Then the Gemara (more commentaries on the second Mishnah commentaries) was added to create the Talmud of today. And all of this was done after multiple generations had past from the 2nd Temples destruction.
My opinion:
Judaism has spent too much time studying the Talmud and not enough time studying the Torah for them selves. Not that debate and even documentation of those debates about an original document (the Torah) are not good for review. But why would anyone want to revere and follow the commentaries of a document rather than the document it self? The Talmud has created more traditions of man and enslaved the Jewish nation more (Their minds and hearts) than was the case of their lives in Egypt their physical bodies).
Why to you think the The Prophets so excoriated the Hebrew nation for leaving what was to be their First Love, Yahweh ? It wasn’t because they did follow the Talmud.
What is the problem that the 10 lost tribes have ? It is not that they are not following the Talmud.
How did Yahweh show Himself to Israel ? Through His Torah. Not the Talmud. Again historically the Talmud is a great document, but it is a work of mens hands and thus enslaves those who idolize it.
Suggested reading:
Salmon ben Yeruham (10th century), book “Sefer Milhamot YHWH”
Great Reply Luke. You expressed it perfectly.
Luke,
I am 100% pure man, but I could simply KISS you right now for writing this.
Thank you for putting some questions I had into better focus. Much appreciated and I think you absolutely nailed it!
You make a perfectly valid point. Why study the Metadata, when you have direct access to the Database itself!
You are brilliant! Thanks again.
What do you mean by ”100 % pure man”? It sounds like you mean you are secretly gay.
Couldn’t agree more.
I heard something recently that talked of this very thing – that the STUDY of the Torah, and the quest to “decode its secrets” has become more important than the actual words of YHWH himself. This is precisely what happened with the scribes and pharisees of Rome, and why Yashua Hamashiach called them out on it. He stated that while they claim to love YHWH, they couldn’t discern that the words of the Torah (word of Moses) were actually talking about HIM; they could “tell the weather” but couldn’t discern the signs, that the fulfillment of the Torah was right in front of them. Literally.
I agree with you Luke, as christians do the same with the Bible. The man made interpretation of the Bible are made more important than the Bible itself. It takes courage to let go of interpretations and allow God to speak to us in a clear voice. We don’t have to be afraid of false teachings, they will always be there. If we allow the love of God and His Word in our heart, He WILL show us the Truth!
I totally agree! Also I agree with Luke. Plus men must not become wise in their own eyes!
Praise our Lord,May the WISDOM of Almighty rest upon you from now unto Eternity, in the name of our Lord we pray Amen
Glory unto Our Lord
Luke: you have made some very telling and educational observations, which I sincerely hope have the effect of at least making the reader ‘question what they believe to be proper and correct’……………………………..God be with You.
i’m not well school on the topic but i can agree with Luke.
Why would you want to recite & study works of man, when the Torah is divine.
Luke if i may ask, If the Jews do not have the NT then what record of the Jesus do they have or where does Jesus fit in. Surely he was a Rabbi & they should have commentries then of Him?
Excellent reply!!
I love hearing what Yahweh wanted his children to do. Follow his statues, laws and commandments, which are his mizvots. The mizvots are forever Deut. 4:40. The Torah is Yahweh’s instructions on how to live on the land he created for his people.
Holy scripture can be confusing, and commentary is a useful tool in the advancement of understanding. The much longer Talmud is the commentary, which explains the Torah. No one says to ignore the Torah. Why not read both?
The talmud is a scary read For a Christian. Maybe worse then then the Quran.
You are so right Luke
All Praises to the Most High Yah
Laurie, the author is Dilling, not Dillinger. And it’s nice to know you recommend a book that is also endorsed by David Duke.
just because duke endorses it means nothing other than you fear what it contains…wait let me see…we are all anti semitic right? That no longer works….the world is finding out 🙂
Mein Kampf, was penned by Adolf Hitler himself, yet it should be required reading by all 6 billion people on the face of the planet. So, the David Duke reference is hardly insightful.
The Talmud (of BABELonyian decent) is what the Lord Jesus was referring to when he stated in Revelation 3:9
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
This statement: “Under Jewish beliefs, Moses received the Torah via a written text alongside an oral version or commentary. This oral section is now what the Jews call the Talmud” is incorrect.
The Jewish people did not have the Talmud until after the Babylonian captivity (587-518 BC). It came out of this captivity. This is why it is called the Babylonian Talmud. This is well documented in history.
The Jewish people know this. Ancient Jews did not practice this type of Judaism (1800-588 BC) This is why Orthodox Jews don’t use it.
What Orthodox Jews don’t use the Talmud? You may consider that its content appeared during the Babylonian captivity, but the belief prevails among Orthodox Jews that its content was orally transmitted from as far back as the origin of the Torah.
How can that which is made for the purpose of defining and clarifying a thing, also be created in parallel time as the thing it is said to define and clarify?
Doesn’t ‘a’ thing have to come into existence before that which designed for the sole purpose of explaining it?
Can the cart come before the horse? Does lightening come before thunder (sorry, that’s a trick question and I should not have thrown that one in there)?
You might think of it the other way around– think of the Talmud as the original comprehensive law and the Torah as the essential notes kept as reminders.
Supposedly the entire law was handed down from generation to generation but only after many centuries did the rabbis decide that they’d better write down what isn’t in the Torah so that it won’t get lost.
In regards to the question involving a horse and a cart and a decision that needs to be rendered on the positioning of these two particular items of interest . Sooooo …If im correct in my assumption that this decision is being made by some random individual that just happened to walk up on this oddly unique situation that left a cart horseless;or Visa -Versa since that hasnt been established.
Thanks. Reading the article and the comments on it I now have an idea about the difference between the Torah and the Talmud.
Hi guys,
I enjoy reading the article “Talmud v.s. Torah” and your comments are very informative. Thanks.
Robert
This was very helpful. Thanks.
Would it be acceptable then for a gentile to think of the Talmud as a sort of “Cliff’s Notes” for the Torah, as a rough analogy? Accent on “rough”, and yes, it’s a serious question, no disrespect intended.
Big emphasis on the “rough.” A better analogy is a college course that assigns you a play or novel to read and insists that you can’t understand it unless you read a heavy volume of critical analysis that is much harder to read and much longer than the thing it’s analyzing.
The big difference is that Cliff’s Notes is a simplification and the Talmud is an elaboration. The Talmud is much longer than the written Torah, and its language is no easier to understand.
I have been trying to get to the root of spiritual knowledge since my early youth. I was raised a Baptist, my mother was a Pentecostal Minister, I migrated to a non-denominational church and finally I am studying Judiasm.
I did often wonder where this “oral version” as it is referred to actually came from as I did not see it in scripture. Also, I understand that there is intense debate regarding the subject matter. Where my question lay is who came up with the final version, and what made the sages of the time feel qualified the to put their version in writing ??? Lastly, where does a new comer go from here?
Well, if you all are gonna ignore me I’m just not gonna play with you anymore. This is me taking my dolly and going home. Also, I’m gonna make new friends and throw a party and you all are not invited. I’m sorry, I didn’t mean that, I still like you.
Hmm? No, I’m in my forties. Why would you think I’m in grade school?
In 1242, for example, King Louis IX of France, a canonised saint of the Roman Catholic Church, condemned the Jewish Talmud as a vicious attack on the person of Christ.
The book was banned and copies were publicly burned in the presence of the King. Louis had no interest in discussing his differences with the Jewish communities of France in a peaceful, rational way.
He once claimed that the only way to debate with a Jew was to kill him ‘with a good thrust in the belly as far as the sword will go’.
It was Louis who called the first Inquisition to bring Christian heretics to justice and burned not merely their books but hundreds of men and women.
King Louis was also a Muslim-hater and led two crusades against the Islamic world. In Louis’ day it was not Islam but the Christian West which found it impossible to coexist with others. Indeed, the bitter history of Muslim-Western relations can be said to have begun with an attack on Muhammad in Muslim Spain.
Spain was a Christian nation before Islam took control. Eventually, Christian took Spain back. Remember, Islam was created 600 plus years after the death of Jesus.
Neither Judaism nor Islam share the Christian conception of heresy, which raises human ideas about the divine to an unacceptably high level and almost makes them a form of idolatry. The period of the Crusades, when the fictional Mahound was established, was also a time of great strain and denial in Europe. This is graphically expressed in the phobia about Islam.
Anti-Semitism would become an incurable European disease during the Crusading period and, at the same time as Christians evolved the myths about Mahound and the Saracens,
The only way that the establishment seemed able to cope with these aliens was by imposing an official policy of apartheid, forbidding Christians to have any contact with their Muslim and Jewish neighbours.
Taken from the writings of Karen Armstrong
YIRMEYAHU AND YESHUA CONDEMN TEMPLE WORSHIP
Yeshua entered the Temple grounds and drove out those who were doing business there, both the merchants and their customers. He upset the desks of the money-changers and knocked over the benches of those who were selling pigeons.
He said to them, “It has been written,
‘My house will be called a house of prayer.’[Isaiah 56:7]
But you are making it into a den of robbers!”[Jeremiah 7:11]
“‘Hear the word of the Lord, all you people of Judah who come through these gates to worship the Lord. This is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says: Reform your ways and your actions, and I will let you live in this place. Do not trust in deceptive words and say, “This is the temple of the Lord, the temple of the Lord, the temple of the Lord!” If you really change your ways and your actions and deal with each other justly, if you do not oppress the foreigner, the fatherless or the widow and do not shed innocent blood in this place, and if you do not follow other gods to your own harm, then I will let you live in this place, in the land I gave your ancestors for ever and ever. But look, you are trusting in deceptive words that are worthless.
Will you steal and murder, commit adultery and perjury, burn incense to Baal and follow other gods you have not known, and then come and stand before me in this house, which bears my Name, and say, “We are safe”—safe to do all these detestable things? Has this house, which bears my Name, become a den of robbers to you? But I have been watching! declares the Lord.
‘Go now to the place in Shiloh where I first made a dwelling for my Name, and see what I did to it because of the wickedness of my people Israel. While you were doing all these things, declares the Lord, I spoke to you again and again, but you did not listen; I called you, but you did not answer. Therefore, what I did to Shiloh I will now do to the house that bears my Name, the temple you trust in, the place I gave to you and your ancestors. I will thrust you from my presence, just as I did all your fellow Israelites, the people of Ephraim.’
“So do not pray for this people nor offer any plea or petition for them; do not plead with me, for I will not listen to you. Do you not see what they are doing in the towns of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? The children gather wood, the fathers light the fire, and the women knead the dough and make cakes to offer to the Queen of Heaven. They pour out drink offerings to other gods to arouse my anger. But am I the one they are provoking? declares the Lord. Are they not rather harming themselves, to their own shame?
“‘Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: My anger and my wrath will be poured out on this place—on man and beast, on the trees of the field and on the crops of your land—and it will burn and not be quenched.
“‘This is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says: Go ahead, add your burnt offerings to your other sacrifices and eat the meat yourselves! For when I brought your ancestors out of Egypt and spoke to them, I did not just give them commands about burnt offerings and sacrifices, but I gave them this command:
“Obey me, and I will be your God and you will be my people. Walk in obedience to all I command you that it may go well with you. But they did not listen or pay attention; instead, they followed the stubborn inclinations of their evil hearts. They went backward and not forward. From the time your ancestors left Egypt until now, day after day, again and again I sent you my servants the prophets. But they did not listen to me or pay attention. They were stiff-necked and did more evil than their ancestors.”
“When you tell them all this, they will not listen to you; when you call to them, they will not answer. Therefore say to them, ‘This is the nation that has not obeyed the Lord its God or responded to correction. Truth has perished; it has vanished from their lips.
“‘Cut off your hair and throw it away; take up a lament on the barren heights, for the Lord has rejected and abandoned this generation that is under his wrath”.
“‘The people of Judah have done evil in my eyes, declares the Lord. They have set up their detestable idols in the house that bears my Name and have defiled it. They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire—something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind. So beware, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when people will no longer call it Topheth or the Valley of Ben Hinnom, but the Valley of Slaughter, for they will bury the dead in Topheth until there is no more room. Then the carcasses of this people will become food for the birds and the wild animals, and there will be no one to frighten them away. I will bring an end to the sounds of joy and gladness and to the voices of bride and bridegroom in the towns of Judah and the streets of Jerusalem, for the land will become desolate”.
Thats quite a detailed set of words from a GID Better than any recording device. Explicit word for word for word. Have you ever tried taking notes while someone speaks? They almost ALWAYS have to be told to sliw down to repeat. In ancient times the best way to get around this is to say its from ” God” and ” Spirit” and that none not touched by this would never understand. Draw your own conclusion.
Were the ancient tribes of Israel all Black people? If so is that a problem?
The Hebrew branch that fled north into Africa I believe. I think its great.
“THE JEWISH TALMUD IS ONE OF THE WONDERS OF THE WORLD”!
The official unabridged Soncino Edition of the Talmud published in 1935 was “Translated into English with Notes, Glossary and Indices” by such eminent Talmudic scholars as Rabbi
The world’s leading authorities on the Talmud confirm that the official unabridged Soncino Edition of the Talmud translated into English follows the original texts with great exactness. It is almost a word-for-word translation of the original texts. In his famous classic “The History of the Talmud,” Michael Rodkinson, the leading authority on the Talmud, in collaboration with the celebrated Reverend Dr. Isaac M. Wise states:
“THE TALMUD IS ONE OF THE WONDERS OF THE WORLD. During the twenty centuries of its existence…IT SURVIVED IN ITS ENTIRETY, and not only has the power of its foes FAILED TO DESTROY EVEN A SINGLE LINE, but it has not even been able materially to weaken its influence for any length of time.
IT STILL DOMINATES THE MINDS OF A WHOLE PEOPLE, WHO VENERATE ITS CONTENTS AS DIVINE TRUTH…”
SANHEDRIN, 55b-55a: “What is meant by this? – Rab said: Pederasty with a child below nine years of age is not deemed as pederasty with a child above that. Samuel said: Pederasty with a child below three years is not treated as with a child above that (2) What is the basis of their dispute? – Rab maintains that only he who is able to engage in sexual intercourse, may, as the passive subject of pederasty throw guilt (upon the actual offender); whilst he who is unable to engage in sexual intercourse cannot be a passive subject of pederasty (in that respect) (3). But Samuel maintains: Scriptures writes, (And thou shalt not lie with mankind) as with the lyings of a woman (4). It has been taught in accordance with Rab: Pederasty at the age of nine years and a day; (55a) (he) who commits bestiality, whether naturally or unnaturally: or a woman who causes herself to be bestiality abused, whether naturally or unnaturally, is liable to punishment (5).”
Frustrating: I’d like to know something of the content of the Talmud and how it may be used in contemporary Jewish society, not merely historical relationships.
Look at the whole Mormon religion’s creation. A criminal, born of and raised by criminal parents, gets “visited” allegedly by an angel named “Moroni” 3 times one night to tell him where a secret book made of solid gold plates that reveals a story of an ancient American civilization can be found – in Rochester NY, the criminal’s birthplace. *It’s a wonder the angels name wasn’t MORMONi, instead of MORONi.*
Then the criminal, along with relatives and a few easily brainwashed devoted followers came up with the testimony of 3 & 8 to “prove” what they were feeding their followers was genuine. And told them they just have to believe in it. *along with forking over their life savings and belongings to the church, to truly be accepted into the church and community*
My point being, if you get enough influential people together, all you have to do is make some far fetched story up, get your group all on the same page, and start a church based around your group’s fairy tale, you’re bound to find weak minded people that feel the need to believe in something to get them thru life. This is how every religion started. You don’t need a book to tell you right from wrong. I know it’s wrong to steal or kill or etc, and I’ve never gone to church. Or temple, synagogue, mosque.
How do you know that it’s wrong to steal? From what you’re saying it could be right to steal. I just need to get some people together to believe it and we can start a religion.
We know it is wrong because God said that it was wrong. Many take his word and twist it to make the wrong that they are doing okay. That’s the problem.
I disagree but I could be so far off who know. but it seems to me on an individual basis we know it’s wrong because of how bad and ashamed you feel at your own accord in causing harm to another living creature regardless of species. For example when you do something that would be considered violating the 10 commandments and you have no remorse then that’s a problem. I’ve done some things I’m not proud of I’ve stolen before and I didn’t get caught but to this day I feel so terrible that I could even be capable of doing something like that to another person. I dont think that spawns from thought. It’s much more simple. Thoughts can deceive but your heart always knows if you are willing to listen. It will probably eat at me until the day I die and I accept that its nobody’s fault but my own. With all this misinformation and only God knows how many times his word was altered or even completely left out listening to your heart may be your only way to salvation. Again I dont know I’m just a stupid Gentile who’s been lied to his entire life. All I know is I seriously was at a point of suicide and something happened that made me realize God never turned his back on me or any of us. Why is it that we continue doing that to Him? Look around people. Wars hatred child trafficking violence it has to end. If we put half the effort into inspiring as we do into acquiring things that ultimately mean nothing imagine where we would be. Love Is not only the most powerful force but it is also soooo much easier than hating. One love my brothers and sisters
If you feel that it is okay to steal, you are not testing yourself to see if you are obeying Gods Ten Commandments. He has written them on our hearts. We can deny it as much as we want, but there will come a day, for God’s word makes it clear he knows the number of our days; when death will come and we will face judgment and give an account for how we have chosen to spend our time given to us by our maker.
I am thankful for the grace I have in Jesus Christ my Savior! But I have a very big responsibility with the gift of being saved; to daily hold Christ near and dear to my heart by checking my behavior against those 10 Commandments and reading the Bible which help others hopefully see the light of Jesus, so God can fulfill any work He may choose to do through something I say or do by trying my best to stay close to Him.
Here’s the analogy. The Torah is the law. The Talmud is the myriad regulations that spring from the law. Of course, as like today, regulations have the force of law. Oh the bureaucracy of it all!
God says that nothing can be added or subtracted from His Word. Period.
As His followers, we can only use divinely inspired and canonically authorized work. Period.
So the Talmud for Jews is similar to Creeds in some Christian denominations? Careful…Did God say or are we saying?
Mishnah and talmud destroyed Jews , Torah is from the Creator unlike mishna and talmud. hearsay , written hearsay being passed on from centuries .
Christians got destroyed by their oral or whatever writer and liar Paul the persecutor.
Muslims were destroyed by hadiths .all these destructive books are from men not from the Creator of the universe.
Muslims , Jews and Christians should read , understand fully and follow Torah , Gospel and Quran ONLY and stop following commentaries etc on these books.