Difference Between Lutheran and Christian
If there’s one important thing to know about Lutherans and Christians, it’s the fact that they fall under the same massive umbrella that is Christianity. In much simpler terms, Lutherans are Christians. They’re just one sect among many others that have been founded throughout the years.
Christianity stands on a number of beliefs. First and foremost, Jesus Christ – Christians believe that He is the Son of God, and the Messiah (The Anointed One), who is the fulfillment of God’s love and salvation, as written in the Old Testament of the Bible. Through belief and acceptance of the death and resurrection of Jesus, sinful humans can be reconciled with God and are offered the promise of eternal life. Jesus Christ’s resurrection is considered to be the cornerstone of Christian faith. It demonstrates that He has supremacy over life and death, and thus has the power to bestow eternal life among the people.
Most Christian sects believe in the Holy Trinity (The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit in one God), Sacraments, prayer and creeds, and the afterlife. Sacraments are rites instituted by Christ that mediate grace, constituting a sacred mystery. Most conventionally, they are recognized as an outward sign, instituted by Christ, conveying an inward, spiritual grace through Him. The two most widely accepted sacraments are Baptism and the Eucharist, however, the majority of Christians recognize seven Sacraments, or Divine Mysteries: Baptism, Confirmation (‘Chrismation’ in the Orthodox tradition), the Eucharist, Holy Orders, Reconciliation of a Penitent (confession), Anointing of the Sick, and Matrimony. However, views concerning both what rites are sacramental and what it means for an act to qualify as a Sacrament vary among Christian denominations and traditions. Moreover, the Christian faith is widely symbolized by the Cross. Other major Christian symbols include the chi-rho monogram, the dove (symbolic of the Holy Spirit), the sacrificial lamb (symbolic of Christ’s sacrifice), the vine (symbolizing the necessary connectedness of the Christian with Christ), and many others. These all derive from writings found in the New Testament. Again, the acceptance of these symbols varies from one denomination to another.
What makes the Lutheran Church distinct from the rest of the Christian community is its approach towards God’s grace and salvation; Lutherans believe that humans are saved from sins by God’s grace alone (Sola Gratia) through faith alone (Sola Fide). They do not require the intervention of priests to seek God’s grace or forgiveness. Like most Christian sectors, they believe in the Holy Trinity. They also value sacraments as means of grace working towards sanctification and justification. However, there is slight discrepancy as to how they regard two of the most popular sacraments – Baptism and Holy Communion.
For Lutherans, Baptism is a means of grace, and though the mode of application is not important, it is usually delivered by the sprinkling of water. There is no proper age for baptism; Lutherans can administer the said sacrament to both young and old. The only requirements for a valid baptism are “water and the Word.” In Holy Communion, Lutherans believe bread and wine to literally be the body and blood of Christ. They are accustomed to using real wine as opposed to substitutes or just bread alone. Furthermore, their communal celebration strictly follows the order of Mass. Like many traditional Christian sectors, it is usually held with long-established rituals and sung liturgies. Furthermore, Lutherans are limited regarding the use of symbols and images, as well as veneration of saints. They believe that recognition of such elements is an explicit form of idolatry.
Summary:
1) Lutherans are Christians.
2) The central point of belief for all Christians, including Lutherans, is Jesus Christ as the Savior.
3) The Lutheran denomination differs from other Christian sectors primarily in the belief that humans are saved from sins by God’s grace alone (Sola Gratia) through faith alone (Sola Fide).
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I think they lutherans are right to some extend,because our sins were forgiven through the faith we have in God almighty,and it was his grace that Jesus christ came to earth with,we should stop been too religious,and we should know that Jesus christ came to earth as a prophet to demystify the mystery of God kingdom.thank you!God bless you!
Jesus is not a profit, the bible tells you so.
Tell that to the “woman at the well”. He (Jesus) told her the things she had done in the past and things of the future. John 4:19 says this, “The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.” Jesus didn’t deny being a profit he told her more prophesy. Jesus prophesied on many occasions, this being only one of those occasions. It is true that He was not “only” a prophet, but He was a prophet and much more!
What raises the biggest question for me is the just faith part. Faith is important but getting better at faith isn’t just mass and prayers, though these things are very important. You need to go out and practice your faith, because how else will you get better at it? This faith says (to my understanding, this is not what it actually says straight up), “You need to be super faithful, but you don’t need to apply it to your life or practice it outside of the mass.” Which to me makes no sense. How do you get better? You practice. Same principle in sports and music. You learn from a coach or teacher, and you go and apply what you’ve learned to your playing. In this church, it seems to be just learning and nothing else. This makes absolutely no sense and that’s because the Catholic faith (made by God, a perfect being) was tampered with by a human and created into this Lutheran doctrine that makes no sense even to a teenager, which is me.
Faith without works is dead. Lutherans recognize this clearly. But works do not save us. Faith holds on to the works of Christ. Christ died to pay for the sins of the world. This is true whether a person believes or not. But if they do not believe and rely on the forgiveness Christ won it does them no good. If a person truly believes, the Holy Spirit has worked faith in their heart and they are a child of God. A good tree will produce good fruit. It is a natural consequence of faith that a Christian will (to some extent) live for Jesus. It is from faith that works flow forth. To say that a person has to do good works to be saved is to put the cart before the horse. Yes, a Christian will do good works. But their good works flow from their faith. To put it in more theological terms. Justification comes before sanctification. Good works start with faith, they don’t produce faith or salvation. Jesus said to the thief on the cross, “Today you will be with me in paradise.” The thief believed that Jesus was the promised Messiah, the Christ, the Anointed One. He took hold of the promises that God had made that we would be saved by what the Messiah did. Faith is the gift of God, not a result of human effort. So from start to finish, our being saved is the gift of God. Lutherans recognize this clearly. The just shall live by faith (Rom 1:17) was the verse that struck Luther like a lightning bolt. Eph 2:8-9 & 10 also is very clear. We are saved by grace alone. But we are saved so that we may live for God and do good works. Those good works are pleasing to God also by his undeserved love, but they don’t save us. Christ did that by his perfect life (fulfilled God’s law perfectly) and by his perfect death (completely paid the price for all sin). To God alone be the glory! His is the victory, and we are victorious through him.
Awesome.
Beautifully written Jim
Works are proof of your Faith getting stronger. You want Gods will to be done for others, and actually “ do” what the Bible says. We are not to only hear, but to do.
I believe what most comments are being said here on this page it is by God s grace that we are saved through his son Jesus Christ not by work furthermore works without faith doesn’t work it is faith in God that encourages to do good works to please him without the blood of Jesus Christ there is no salvation he was the perfect lamb that knew no sin but paid the price for ours one more thing faith requires action with hi out it it’s dead God bless you all and fix your eyes on Jesus !!!
Amen
Well said! Amen
I agree Faith in Jesus Christ saves us and when we have that Faith and love we want to be better and more humble because we know Gods love and we love him. The Holy Spirit guides me daily to do better and be better and I want to do better and be better because of Gods love.
I believe that statement to be incorrect. The Bible says that we are saved by Gods grace alone that no man can bost. Our faith didnt save us Gods grace alone did that.if it was do to our having faith thaf makes us responsable for or salvation One could argue thatthier fraith is grater than the others therefore deserving more grace. Grace is a personal gift to each of us and nothing i ever did to deserve it but He loves us and gives freely of His grace. We dont have to do anything for it
Yes I do agree with everything that was said. I am a Lutheran by religion but I am a Christian also.
I’m trying to figure out who I am with God in my life. I’ve spent the last 10 to 14 years very angry at God. I know I need him I my life and my family’s life as well. I’m just trying to see what the difference is between Lutheran and Christian. What you said made a lot of sense to me. Thank you.
Thanks for such a clear and precise explanation, I completely agree full heartedly with your explanation.
That was exactly what I needed to read this morning. You have brightened my day.
Amen! Beautifully said. Thank you.
Please read Habakukk 2:4. I hope you’ve read the whole history and you’ve understood everything even indulgence approach
I hope you like reading? Can you read the whole of Romans 3 especially verse 19-28. Remember also that Dr. Martin Luther was a Catholic priest and once went by the Catholic faith. His contact reading of the Bible which was at that time restricted to common people like us by the heads of the Catholic people was an eye opener. Through Jesus Christ there’s grace for us, we do not need a priest or Bishop to interceed everytime for us. We can now approach the throne of grace boldly and obtain mercy through faith in our Lord Jesus Christ
The reason we need a priest(among other things) is that when Jesus Christ forgives our sins through a priest’s words after a true confession when the priest says the words of God’s forgiveness and that’s how a person knows that in that moment Jesus has forgiven all the sins that a person confessed at at that exact time and that reassures us that our sins now have been forgiven and our souls are again clean and free of all sins after that we can receive Him in a sacrament of Echarist again. Hope it’s clear for you
Oh Anna, you couldn’t be further from the truth. Jesus Christ died for our Sins and never placed anyone between us and Him. When He spoke of repenting he was speaking to the Christian church. Never once do he say to utilize a priest as a “medium” for our communication to Him. As a matter of fact, He was completely frustrated and literally mad at the faracees and sagasees that had elevated themselves into their perceived Godly positions. When I ask Christ to forgive me of my sins, I know biblically that they are wiped out and blotted as far as east is from the west. Keep studying Anna, and Romans will provide you with a ton of detail on this. God Bless.
That is wrong. As Jesus planly stated NO ONE CAN GO TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME JESUS CHRIST. Not moral man
Luther was not a doctor
I would say that it is through grace and repentance that we are saved, those who believe that Jesus is the messiah that died on the cross and rose again for our sins. There are numerous times Jesus had told everyone to repent. Repentance isn’t just saying sorry and keep going on living how we want to live. It’s to realize our error and live how Jesus wants us to live. To separate ourselves from the worldly ways. Of course, being perfect as Jesus was is impossible. That’s why he saved us. But it’s the matter of the heart. I will tell you I am not a Lutheran or Catholic. I do not like categorizing myself into religious factions. I read what the bible says and those are the only words I trust, and there are dangerous interpretations.
I encourage you to do some more research on the origin of Roman-Catholicism and the origin of the King James Bible. I will say that Roman-Catholicism is not from God, and Lutheran’s deviating did so with Godly intentions. The Romans converged with the spread of the teachings of Christ and mixed in their pagan beliefs. It is how Easter and Christmas were formed and mixed in pagan practices with those holidays. Also, the Sabbath was originally a Saturday but Catholicism changed it to Sunday just to show that the church was more authoritative than the bible. Nowhere in the New Testament did Jesus say that priests could forgive sins. They cannot. That is only God. The more history you research, the more you will be amazed.
I love your comments. Hitting it at the right place. Well spoken. The truth hurts but it heals. God bless you for detailed explanation and saying the truth. The truth shall set us free. Hope to see you in heaven.
AMEN Caleb! U absolutely nailed it perfectly!! Thank u for speaking TRUTH! God bless u
There is only one NT scripture that states “faith only”. Look it up and post it here. It may suprise many of you…
James 2:14-26
New King James Version
Faith Without Works Is Dead(A)
14 (B)What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 (C)If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and (D)one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” (E)Show me your faith without [a]your works, (F)and I will show you my faith by [b]my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is [c]dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works (G)when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see (H)that faith was working together with his works, and by (I)works faith was made [d]perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, (J)“Abraham believed God, and it was [e]accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called (K)the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
Lutherans do practice getting better at faith. We have a confirmation, in which we deeply study the Bible, even have tests over it. We are guided by the Pastor of the church, we also do many gatherings and outreaches to profess our belief and to get better at faith. We have Elders meetings and study as an adult to stay on the path and practice more as well. I have been a Lutheran all my life and you are not necessarily made to do these things as an absolute, any Lutheran takes pride in doing so and feel it is necessary to show your faith and that you walk with the Lord in all that you do. Too many sects equates to too much of a grey area about what is important. For this reason, Faith in God the Father Almighty and knowing he was crucified for the remission of sin is the most important to us.
God the Father, Creator, Spirit of Love and all Goodness the One we worship and praise, sent Jesus His Son fully man and fully God, to teach and ultimately die on the cross so we may be saved unto eternal life. To those who believe is sent the Holy Spirit, which guides us through life toward repentance and good works. We are saved by grace but he will know us by our works.
The truth is, faith is a tricky word when it comes to the Bible. The truth is, faith comes and is increased with blessings. The real word you need to use is believe. Because faith in belief is the only important faith that is needed when it comes to making God happy. I’ll give you an example. How can you have faith in anything else other than relief? You can’t be afraid something bad won’t happen because you have faith God won’t let it happen. That’s not an option. So what do you really mean by faith? Think about it. I know the scriptures that say those who live by faith… But if you keep reading they usually use the word belief in the scripture before or after. You can’t have faith without believing. Believe is the important thing. And the truth is you either do or you don’t. The only thing you can work on is being better at following the laws but that’s not really important as far as being saved however it is important. That comes with spiritual growth. Once you have received the Holy Spirit and our reborn the more you work on doing better the more the spirit will help you. You just have to believe. Amen.
You are right in part. Anyone can go to church or any class and learn about God. What good is it if you don’t take what you learn and make it every part of your life not just Sunday. You are right that there is more then just learning. All churches carry believers and unbelievers, remember the Word said not to pull out the weeds because you can pull up what is good there. Your right that humans mess it up no matter what church you attend. This is because of sin. I’m a Lutheran and I have gone to other churches with friends and family. I’m a 63 year old women and for this old lutheran my reply would be read the Bible for yourself. Pray for God’s understanding of what He wants of you. Focus on God and serve Him in all you do in this world. I have found that when you live your life to God you will be able to withstand the wrongs in this world. And yes within and out side the church. Perfection belongs to God not man. Throw the first stone. It is easy to judge the church because we expect the church to be practicing what they preach. One of the hardest lessons was to see the wrongs that effect the human rather then the human is the infection. God wants us to pray for one another. We all need His forgiveness and help. To as you say practice what you learn from God’s Word. Remember it’s God who saves; not humans. Thank you for writing what you did. It gives this old heart hope that the church in the spirit of today’s youth will go on. God bless you in His teachings.
I understand your thinking; however practicing doesn’t mean saying the same things over and over in order to discipline yourself, it means to change and go out and actually live as a Christian in all ways. This means actually doing the things you are told to do in the Bible not punishing yourself by repeating certain phrases over and over. I hope this helps.
What you need to understand is that if you believe the gospel which is the revelation of Jesus Christ, that means you have faith that Jesus was sinless and did die and take his blood and put it before the father on his throne to pay for those who believe’s sins. Then he was resurrected back to life to live forever. If you believe that then you have faith in it and if that is true then when you first heard that and believed it you went through a spiritual baptism which sealed you with the Holy spirit. Once you experience a spiritual baptism and are reborn you are sealed with the Holy spirit. It cannot go away. To have to work on it like you mentioned would be works and there is no works involved in it because Jesus did it all. So relax and enjoy being a christian. The promise is sealed you are adopted into Christ’s family. Amen.
As a Lutheran, faith without Love is nothing. I am in bondage to sin and cannot free myself. This has been done for all at the Cross. While we were yet in our sin, The Lord has rescued me and freed me from all sin and unrighteousness. Turn from sin and sin no more is daily living in God’s Word, received faith and hope. The greatest of these is love. ( 1Cor 12:31-13:13.)
You are correct, the woman at the well did indeed say she perceived Jesus was a prophet 🙂 and it might be helpful to note, the passage doesn’t end there.
Jesus, in Matthew 4:25-26, said he was the Messiah. It seems as though Jesus was more focused on conveying the point that he was the Messiah, than he was on telling her she was wrong about him being a prophet.
The fact that Jesus said he was “he” (the Messiah) he was dispelling the idea that he was a prophet. He wasn’t someone prophesying about the coming Messiah, he was actually the long awaited Messiah.
The entire passage of the Bible is super interesting! From the beginning to the end; Matthew 4:1-45.
25 The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.”
26 Then Jesus declared, “I, the one speaking to you—I am he.”
Perfectly stated! As one who has been practicing her faith for over 30 years, am I wrong to assume that you are not a young believer?
God’s Word never grows old. It is always fresh and life-sustaining, always relevant, and as we choose to dig deeper, can always find something new and substantial.
I would liked to challenge all, no matter the length of your walk or age, to dig deeper. He will continue to surprise and bless you with new knowledge and understanding. He promises to meet you where you are!
Human perception isn’t always right. That’s why we have God.
Jesus is not a mere prophet but the Saviour of the World – the Messiah!
Regarding communion, the bread and the wine represent the body and blood of Jesus. We are partaking (in faith) the body of christ (bread) and the blood (wine). However, the wine and bread are first consecrated. And so become the outward and visible signs received in faith.
What is this faith? Our belief as Christians that Christ was crucified,
died and was buried and on the third day he rose from the dead. That Jesus paid for our sins with his life (through one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous).That is why if one does not believe then that person remains in his/her sins.
This is one of the two Sacraments commanded by Jesus. The Lord’s Supper must be done until he comes.
Just because thats what the woman (at the well) THOUGHT HE was doesn’t make it so..John 4:26+26 clearly corrects her… The reason Christ was crucified is because he denied being a Prophet and Claimed to be GOD as the Son of God… (not a prohet. Inspired by God)
Jesus Christ is truly The Son of God (Mathew 3:17; John 3:16) exercising his prophetic gift as a prophet to the Samaritan woman. Jesus perform his godly ministry on earth based on our duties & roles given to us as gift frm God ( Ephesian 4:8-13).
Sheena: yes, Jesus was and has always been a “profit” to those who use his name to gain wealth!!! This is one of the downfalls of big churches in my opinion. They are always preaching about tithing. Yes, tithing is very important, but when it becomes remotely close to the main message you preach about… when the preacher lives in a mansion, makes 100k+ per year, and has body guards… there is just something fundamentally wrong with that!!!! Sure, the Pope and similar leaders need protection as they are symbols as much as anything… but, I think when your local pastor “needs” those things, there are some serious issues going on and they need to be addressed!!!
I grew up in a small country church where we believe Jesus was a “Prophet” as well as the son of God… and we tithe, provide the pastor with a nice, yet modest home, and a comfortable salary. It’s about the message and doing the right thing, being good Christians, not about how much money you can give and how guilty and ashamed you should feel if you don’t. I have seen people shamed for not giving enough when they cannot put food on the table for their family before!!! Come to church and praise The Lord… when you can feed you family, THEN you can tithe… but until that time, you are as welcome as anyone else in the congragation!!!
There a massive difference between those who worship Jesus as a “Profit” and those who worship him as a “Prophet”!!!
Jesus is God. the second person of the trinity. Tithing…God says to be a cheerful giver, and He allows us to test Him by giving to Him the firstfruits of our labor. We give because we trust Him and His promises to us. Jesus says that we must hate our family compared to the love we have for Him. If we say that He is our Lord, He simply tells us to prove it to others by our works, to show the lost the gospel through our deeds/actions. Once you truly know that He is what He is…our Lord, then you give with a different view, the view that not only can’t we take our money with us whenever we die, but it’s not really ours while we’re here on earth!! That is a wonderful “place” to be because the god of money now has no reign over us. It’s beautiful and I pray that you realize it some day.
Plus, when the preacher stands there and has a whole sermon on Tithing, be makes the church seem poor or lacking. It has at times, at a different church than my home church, make you feel guilty because you are poor and the only income of a family of 5 and a severely disabled child, you can’t even pay all your own bills every month. (No excesses allowed other than basic cable and a cellphone. Communication is a must in this world now.) Peace and Love, Go with God.
No, he was not FOR PROFIT in the sacred space of a place of worship. But a prophet….theres still some debate. I’d say he was more of a teacher than a prophet.
Correct. Jesus is SAVIOUR AND part of the Holy Trinity. We could not be saved without the blood of Jesus at Calvary and His sacrifice for us on the cross. Then we need to accept,believe and confess our sins. God bless all.
But profit is so important in capitalusm! God ble$$ america!
Please learn to spell.Prophet not profit. The first one has to do with religion and the other is money or some kind of gain.
You have said PROFIT. It is not PROFIT but PROPHET. Jesus Christ is GOD who came down from heaven in human form to save us.
It is not PROFIT but PROPHET. Jesus Christ is GOD who came down from heaven in human form to save us.
Actually I profit greatly from my belief in the son. You probably meant to say Prophet.
Jesus Christ IS the son of God. True God, and true man. He came to die on the cross, for all who will believe, the truth and accept him !
Totally agree
+1
We are saved by God’s grace and grace alone. Jesus died on the cross and endured so much pain and agony to wash away our sins and make us whole.
Salvation through faith!
Psalms 111:10
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.
Psalms 112:1
Praise ye the LORD. Blessed is the man that feareth the LORD, that delighteth greatly in his commandments.
Psalms 119:115
Depart from me, ye evildoers: for I will keep the commandments of my God.
Psalms 119:127
Therefore I love thy commandments above gold; yea, above fine gold.
Ecclesiastes 12:13
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
Matthew 5:19
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Jesus is prophet, priest and king. Lutherans also believe in what is called the “real presence” in holy communion. We believe that all four things are present in communion – the bread, the wine, Christ’s body and blood. As Paul said, “Is not this cup which we bless a participation in the blood of Christ? Is not this break that we break a participation in the body of Christ?” So all four are present in the act of communion. How? We leave that up to God. Human reason cannot understand many of the mysteries that the Bible teaches. We don’t understand the Trinity either… Father, Son and Holy Spirit (3 persons) yet one God. But we believe what Scripture teaches. That was the real genius of Martin Luther. Despite his great intellect he approached the Bible like a little child that simply believes what the Bible teaches. Luther recognized what a barrier human reason can be to believing what the Bible teaches. We must put our reason under God’s Word and simply believe what he tells us. Human reason can easily lead us astray, but God’s Word is always true. Use scripture to interpret scripture. God’s Word doesn’t contradict itself. Be like Mary who treasured all these things in her heart. She didn’t understand everything right away. But she relied upon God to give her insight as she read God’s Word and came to a deeper understanding.
The faith that saves sinners is Christ Jesus’s faith not ours. Faith the size of a grain of mustard seed is to believe and receive Jesus the Christ as the only BEGOTTEN Son and Lamb of Jehovah GOD and accepting His deity as GOD Himself.
The faith that saves sinners is Christ Jesus’s faith not ours. Faith the size of a grain of mustard seed is to believe and receive Jesus the Christ as the only BEGOTTEN Son and Lamb of Jehovah GOD and accepting His deity as GOD Himself.
I’m Lutheran ( Greek Orthodox ) and Lutherans also believe the only way to heaven is to truly repent of one’s sins.
And would you explain to what extent they are wrong please
Lutherans are not Christians. Neither are any of the other denominations. Paul abraded the Corinthians for denominating themselves into sects, Paulines, Peterites, and Apollosites (1Cor 1:12). Christ can not and should not be divided(1 Cor 1:13. There are only Christians. Any one that tries to divide Christ are heretics and are lost. 2000 years ago men divided into sects called Paulines, Peterites, and Apollosites; now they go by different names: Lutheran, Methodist, Baptist and the like. All should believe in the risen Christ(John 3:16),all should repent(turn away from) of ones sinful life(Acts 2:38), all should confess Christ(Rom 10:9), all should Be Baptized(immersed) in water for the remission of sins(Rom 6:3-9) and all should continue in the faith to the best of ones ability until death(Matt 10:22). Be a follower of Christ “Christian only”. Then the faithful will be rewarded with eternal life(Rev 2:10.
Being a Christian means to be a follower of Christ. If you follow Christ and you know that he is the ONLY way to ever get to heaven, you are a Christian. I don’t care what you call yourself. It’s not about the title, it’s about Jesus. Thats it. I mean it was stupid to ever split a religion on things like baptism and communion because those aren’t salvation issues. Jesus is the only important thing.
Chloe, I respect you for voicing your opinion but when it comes to salvation neither your opinion nor my opinion counts for anything. It is God’s word that counts and only God’s word that counts. I look forward to you posting your reply to this rebuttal of your last comment; however, for it to carry any weight with the readers of this blog and myself, your comments/facts should be backed up with New Testament scriptures.
Chloe, you stated, “Being a Christian means to be a follower of Christ.” To be a Christian means being more than a follower of Christ. I can follow the group “Third Day” around everywhere that they go and learn to sing all their songs by heart but that want make me a member of the band. In order to be a member of the band I first need to be invited to join the band and then I must do what ever is required to be a member of “Third Day”. Scripture states, “So Jesus said to those who believed in him, “If you obey my teaching, you are really my disciples”John 8:31 and “If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love.”John 15:10.
You see it takes more that simply believing and accepting Jesus as your only savior to save you, Jesus himself said you must obey to be saved. Personally, I choose not to argue with Jesus on this point.
As for titles, I want debate that point here but I will say this; it isn’t necessarily the titles that are wrong it is the doctrines that go along with those titles. Baptist doctrine is different than Lutheran doctrine and Christian doctrine is different than Baptist and Lutheran doctrines. Here in lies the rub. Paul said, “Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.” 1Co 1:10 The differences in doctrine between denominations are wrong. If we all simple obeyed the doctrines of Christ (Christian) and ignored the doctrines of men and their traditions (Martin Luther, John Calvin and the like) then we would be “all speaking the same things” 1Cor1:10
Lastly you stated, “baptism…aren’t salvation issues.” Scripture says different. Have you read, “Those flood waters were like baptism that now saves you…” 1Pe 3:21 Did you catch that? “baptism that now saves you” I didn’t write that, Martin Luther didn’t write that, John Calvin didn’t write that either, Simon Peter wrote that and just as stated above I choose to not argue with Simon Peter. He wrote what Jesus taught and that’s that.
I know you mean well but you have been taught things that can not be proved out to be true according to scripture and I know you would agree that scripture is our ultimate authority.
May God bless you and give you understanding.
I think it’s pretty simple Tom. Even a child can be a Christian, can be saved. Simply by believing and accepting who He says He is and what He has done to you.
A simple scripture to back that up is the most famous and underrated verse from John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.”
Another one is in Romans 10:9-13 “9… because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11 For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
It’s really simple.
If you truly believe in Him, then He will change your heart. He will change the way you think, hear, see, say, and do.
According to you Tom, you said this: “You see it takes more that simply believing and accepting Jesus as your only savior to save you, Jesus himself said you must obey to be saved.”
I completely disagree. Are you saying that if you disobeyed God, you stopped being saved? Are you saying that in order to be saved, you have to constantly obey Him? No! The whole point of Jesus dying on that Cross for me, for you, and for everyone is to for our sins. And one of those sins is disobedience. And to be saved from those sins is to simply believe who He says He is and what He is to you and what He has done for you. If you truly believed that, then you are saved. If you don’t believe that that is true then are you saying that John 3:16 is a lie? That Romans 10:9-13 is all a lie? Since you always accept the scriptures at face value then why not accept what John 3:16 and Romans 10:9-13 at face value?
That’s why I believe in Jesus. I, myself, know that I have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I am continually wanting to grow deeper into my relationship with Dad [Jesus]. He’s with me every step of the way. And how do I know that I’m saved? ‘Cause I truly believe who He is, what He says about Himself, and all the things that He has done for me. I’ve seen a significant growth in my spirituality. My personality changed. The way I see, say, think, and do things changed. And it’s all because of Him. All because of His grace. But that doesn’t mean that I don’t disobey Him. Every single day I still mess up. But He still loves me. And I still believe in Him. So if what you say is true, does that mean that every time I mess up by DISOBEYING Him or NOT obeying Him I’m not saved? Not true at all. That’s why salvation is a two-part process. One is justification, believing in the fact that Jesus died on the cross for my sins and that He rose again. Once you believe that. Period! You’re saved. But it doesn’t end there. The second part is sanctification. Me being made holy through the power of God’s grace. And that’s where I trust in Him to change who I am and make me become more like Jesus. But that doesn’t mean that you’re never gonna mess up. So it’s a life-time process. And that’s where I am now. I’m continually being changed by God. But yeah, my point is, to be saved, or to accept God’s gift of salvation is simple. Simply by believing in Him. And confessing it with your mouth. So simple that a child can understand. Thanks for the patience if you read the whole thing, Tom. Have a great day/night and Merry Christmas!
you are exactly right, Jesus is the reason we are forgiven our sins, if we obeyed God every second, we would be perfect and thats not possible, only Jesus is perfect, we are sinners, imperfect and flawed humans until we get to heaven, and by Gods precious blood of Jesus his son, we are not only forgiven but saved from sin, and he is the only way, the truth, and the life, we will always sin, but the closer we work on getting to Jesus, to be like him, the less sinning we will do, amen?
Jesus knows your gonna mess up and that’s why he says to repent. You try your best to do what he says and obey him, but he also knows your gonna disobey him. You understand that. But what you don’t understand is that Jesus wants you to repent and be sorry that you made him sad and to be sorry that you caused him pain. He died on the cross for our sins, so his torture is caused by us sinning. Obey him and when you mess up say your sorry, if not to God to spare Jesus from the ignorance inside of all of us, then to Jesus for causing him pain.
Could not have explained it better! God Bless you.
Amen.
How did the thief on the cross get to be with Jesus in paradise? Was he baptized? Did he celebrate the Lord’s supper? Did he ever experience any of he sacraments? NO!! He knew who Jesus was…his Lord. He confessed it with his mouth and though Jesus was not yet resurrected from the dead, this man knew He would be since he asked Jesus to REMEMBER him…so he believed it in his heart!! We must stop all this legalistic stuff and know that we know that we know that Jesus is Lord!! If we say that we are not sinners, the we make God a liar. Jesus says that whoever believes, WHOEVER BELIEVES, will not perish!! Thank you Lord Jesus!! Hallelujah and Amen!!
This is the ideal answer. Evoryene should read this
Good point, but let’s not forget the importance of baptism. Baptism is the outward response to what is going on inside, after salvation. The thief did not have a chance to be baptized before death. Was he saved? You better believe it! And I can’t help but believe that if he had had the chance, before death, to be baptized, he would have. Jesus walked this earth to teach and guide us. One of His examples was being baptized. We are to follow in His steps. Baptism comes after salvation.
The Word was never meant to be complicated. God’s perfect love for us should bring us to our knees. He offers us a precious gift, through His Son, Jesus Christ. The gift of salvation and everlasting life with Him. We are saved IF AND ONLY IF, we believe in Christ’s death and resurrection. So in response to a previous post by someone else, baptism does not save. Salvation is required before baptism.
In response to the person making the statement about repentance…..THANK YOU! It is my understanding that the blood sacrifice Christ made, was to cover sins up to the point of salvation. Because we are human, we will sin. Because of God’s love for us and our love for Him, we should be prompted to confess those sins immediately.
Hi Kim, do you know that there is only one scripture in the NT that “specifically and unequivocally” states the purpose of baptism? Here is a hint. The scripture isn’t in Paul’s writings. Paul gave analogies such as, “put on Christ”, “buried…raised with Christ”, etc. The scripture that I am speaking of is straight to the point and specifically states the purpose/meaning of baptism. Here’s another hint. It also isn’t an outward sign of what has already happened inwardly or “in your heart”. That phrase is man made and isn’t anywhere in the scriptures. It is a concept derived from theology. Look up the baptism scripture and if you find it, please post it here. It will suprise some of us. Looking forward to you post. 🙂
*(On a side note, for the person that wrote the article. I am pleasantly surprised that this thread has endured the years and is still providing spiritual and intellectual stimulation. God bless.)
@ Tom Sherman- you asked if someone finds a scripture on baptism as an outward sign to post here..
Well here you go> Baptism is ESSENTIAL. And it IS in the scriptures, contrary to your statement above….”it isn’t anywhere in the scriptures”
John 3:5 JESUS answered “Verily,Verily I say unto thee, unless a man is born of *water* AND of the *Spirit*, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of GOD”
Being baptized is an outward sign. JESUS also said in Matt 3:13-15 >>Then Jesus went from Galilee to the Jordan River to be baptized by John.But John tried to talk him out of it. “I am the one who needs to be baptized by you,” he said, “so why are you coming to me?” JESUS said, “It should be done, for we must carry out all that God requires.” So John agreed to baptize him.
JESUS said that. JESUS DID that.. Plain as day. And as you frequently mention, you prefer not to argue with Jesus, we share that sentiment. Baptism is essential both of *water* and of the *Holy Spirit.*
I agree we should all discard doctrines of men. *2TIM 3:16 -4:4.* HIS HOLY WORD is more than sufficient for everything this life can throw at us, it always baffles me why we try to find extra things to add to HIS teachings based on what mere men have said. FOLLOW JESUS. HE is the author and finisher of our faith. IN CHRIST ALONE MY HOPE IS FOUND. NOT doctrines of men.
Have a blessed day in the LORD.
When did following God become so divisive? You’ve turned religion into like trying to fit in at your local high school. That’s very sad. Jesus didn’t believe in such divisiveness.
Sadly Henri, it has always been divisive. Many of the Jewish Christians of NT times didn’t accept Gentile Christian’s. There has always been factions and heretical “us only”/”my way” groups. That’s the human side of the Church. Only the blood of Christ holds it together. May the Lord forgive us!
Hebrews 10:26-29 (KJV) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth (law), there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
I agree with you Chloe. Jesus dying on the cross is the reason we received grace through faith. Its all about Him, the Trinity part. The division is there, but if we accept what His Son did and continue in faith, we will enter into heaven. We will know all the answers when Jesus returns for us.
I agree 100%.
Yo Jesus created a church. The Roman Catholic Church, the one the Lutheran church was derived from. If you truly love Jesus, then you should start going to the church he created and not the one that was tampered with by a human being, unless maybe you want to tell me that a human knows better than Jesus.
Actually Alicia, if you want to be technical, the Roman Church parted ways with the Orthodox Church, in large part, over the Catholic position that the Pope had authority over all other bishops. Until this position was taken by the Roman Church, the Bishop of Rome was “first among equals”, not without equal. The Orthodox Church still holds to its original or at least early doctrine. Thus, remaining the earliest surviving doctrinal foundation/denomination. All this can, of course, be disputed. However, it is historically documented.
And because Jesus is the only important thing you need to go to the sacraments. Idk exactly how the sacraments surfaced but I’m thinking that since Jesus got baptized we should too and since Jesus literally created the Eucharist and told us to, “…do this…” we should participate in that as well. He also anointed the sick and healed them, to grow close to him shouldn’t we participate in that sacrament as well? And the sacrament of reconciliation is literally created to help us grow closer to Jesus. It’s reminding us that he will always forgive us and giving us a very easy way to repent, because as Jesus said in the Apocalypse repent or you will suffer worse than sodom. (That was paraphrasing but if you look in the Apocalypse, you’ll see what I’m talking about.) Also, I really haven’t heard of any saints who didn’t participate in the sacraments. And they were so close to Jesus that he graced them with miracles. That’s why they are saints. Saints tell us how to live close to Jesus, and because you love Jesus so much you should look at how they lived their lives so that you can mirror them to become a better Christian.
Alicia, weren’t saints originally chosen by popular opinion and now by the pope? These are “men”, not Jesus. It seems a bit of a double standard regarding what you stated about Luther. And because the Roman Catholic Church was Soo corrupt at the time, Luther felt it necessary to call out the MEN and bring the Word to the people, in many ways, but one was by translating to the language of his countrymen, something kept from the people by the RCC. The RCC is not the pure church as it was originally; it became corrupt by the leaders of the church in addition to all the other man-made rules and protocols it added along the way, thus Luther began the revolution against the corrupt and powerful leadership of the RCC and brought God’s Word and the Love and Salvation of Jesus directly to the people. You should learn the history before condemning.
“Also, I really haven’t heard of any saints who didn’t participate in the sacraments. And they were so close to Jesus that he graced them with miracles. That’s why they are saints. Saints tell us how to live close to Jesus, and because you love Jesus so much you should look at how they lived their lives so that you can mirror them to become a better Christian.”
Amen
well said, I wish there were more people like you! In the last days there will be, God will raise up an army that he has trained, that all follow Christ, all have been baptised in water and the Holy Spirit and by his Grace, serve him in love. We are his chosen people, a Royal Priesthood. We do not belong to any denomination or church and have been taught by the Holy Spirit. We are Abrahams’ children, the children of faith, and that not of ourselves, but a gift of the Lord. So that no man can boast.
I found it refreshing to find a like minded Christian….It’s good to know that you are not “The only voice crying out in the wilderness”. So often i feel i don’t “fit in” with conventional churches. so stay at home with the Lord, never lonely as he always has something new to teach me.
But in my soul I hanker after companionship, someone who see’s the world as i do. Thank you for your message. I know it was written a long time ago, I don’t know if you will get this, I hope so… Jude xxxx
Dont stay at home. Go out and demonstrate what he is teaching you.go be part of the body and let him work through you. This is how he is reviving the church. Through these worshipers in spirit and truth
Amen!
All Lutherans are Christians .
Lol…not even all Christians are Christians. (Ment to be funny… but as I think about bn it, it’s all too true.)
We are also commanded not to judge others. Only God will judge. Just mind your business, if a person says they are a Christian, then they are. Remember Mark 9:39
A Christian means a people or a man that follows and obeys the teachings of Jesus Christ.Talking about Christian, it is not dealing to sect’s but it’s about faith because if you have faith in God and you obey His commandments then you are called Christian wether your a seventh day Adventist or whatever your religion is.
“Lutherans are not Christians. Neither are any of the other denominations.”
Seven years (2012-2019) have softened my heart. I confess that seven years ago when I posted “Lutherans are not Christians. Neither are any of the other denominations.” I was to rigid and decisive. Now after all these years, I want to apologize for for my abrasiveness. I was and still am, very zealous for the word of God, however, I am now tempered by love. If I was offensive, and I was, I apologize. I continue to assert the fact that we must follow scripture as our only guide for salvation and to resist the doctrines of man, but I now realize that the love of God manifest through us as we teach truth is what is desperately needed not incendiary language.
Humbly,
Tom
Tom, your updated post replying to what you has posted back in 2012 warmed my heart greatly. God continually works on and in all of us in His way and on His timeline. As this happens, we will see growth in our spirituality. Our personality will change. The way we see, talk, think, and do things will change, and it’s all because of Him. All because of His grace. So it’s a life-time process. We are continually being changed by God. God Bless.
Tom, you still have my love through Christ. No apologies are necessary, we all hold a true common thread, God. We all show or joy and passions in different ways, possibly say different things, that is what makes us individuals. The passion for God is the thread that binds. I am Lutheran and did not take an offense to your comment because I know my heart, it’s my heart. Continue your passions and you will find great wisdom.
Tom,
God Blesses You With Love, Understanding, Open Heart,Open Mind,SALVATION & Many Other Wonderful Things!
I Am Truly Happy For You!
I’m So Glad I Kept Reading! Your Initial Post vs This Post Is Proof Of God’s Love!
May The Lord Continue To Bless Us All! Amen!
Correct it’s all about Christ,it isn’t Christianity, religion ain’t gonna save your life, everything regarding salvation is one man for himself and God for us all. Read Habakukk 2:4
You are saying exactly what the passage is against. I am LCMS. We are a biblically inerrant denomination. We are sinners forgiven by the grace of God and the death and resurrection of His son Jesus Christ, just the same as my many brothers and sisters of other denominational and non denominational churches. We are one body if we are children of the one true God.
I just read through the rest of the posts. You are my brother in Christ.
You are one of the best comments I read. Why the sio called Christians offend the Mother of Jesus? Even with mundane concept a Mother is venerated, celebrated. What is wrong with Christians? I consider myself Catholic even though I do not go to church much. I say my prayers morning and night and I obey the 10 commandments. The blessed Mother… God is watching those that do not honor His Mother! A true Catholic do not become or go somewhere else to pray and honor God. The Catholic Church has changed. The Lutheran church was founded out of anger against the Pope. To me anything born out of disrespect and anger, has not validity; however, I believe God is merciful and I am sure many Lutherans and others are good people and God is just! People will be just that and we must see that under God there is no difference among us. St. Peter snd it is Jesus words that Peter would be the rock where He would build and found His Church.
God love us all!
Christ teach us to pray and included there the prayer of confession and it was stated again in 1;john 1:9.
You are exactly right Jesus taught in the “Lord’s Prayer”verses, which is an example of how to pray, to ask God to forgive us as we forgive others but who was he talking to? It was his apostles and as we all know they were already sanctified and were living, at that time, under the Old Covenant.
You are also right in that John taught that we are to confess our sins and our sins will be forgiven. He said, “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1Jn 1:9).
Unfortunately, what you left out was the context in which John was writing. You forgot to ask yourself whom it was to, that John was writing . As it turns out he was not speaking to a group of unconverted people; he was; in fact, speaking to a group of Christians. He said this, “They went out from “us”, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have “continued with us”: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they “were not all of us”. But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.” (1Jn 2:19-21)
This information changes your assertion that Jesus taught us to pray for salvation. I have never read a NT verse that instructs individuals to pray a sinners prayer to be saved. Have you? If so I would love to know which verse it is. Please post the “sinners prayer verse” here for us all to see. A little hint to assist your search; the Church began after Jesus died on the cross. (Heb 9:15-17)
Happy hunting and God bless!
PS- I thought I would include a list the of purposes of baptism alone with the verses where they can be found. You may be surprised to find that there are not any baptism verses that say that baptism is a symbol or a likeness as many preachers today claim.
Here they are: Fulfills all righteousness (Matt 3:15) ; Commanded by Jesus (Mark 16:16); Forgiveness of sin (Acts 2:38) ; Wash sins away (Acts 22:16); Into Christ, Crucified, Buried with Him, Raised with Him (Rom 6:3-8); Into the body (1 Cor 12:13); Clothed with Christ (Gal 3:27);
Circumcised by God, Buried with Christ, Raised with Christ (Col 2:11-12); Saves You (1Pet 3:21)
Hello EVERYONE. I have been reading what you all have said and stopped. Why? Because everyone seems to to be claiming that they KNOW the Word better than someone else, when in fact none of us know, or will know, the Word perfectly and what it means until we make it to heaven. Personally, I am believing and living out the Word of God the best I can and am trusting God, not leaning on my own understanding, to lead me the rest of the way home. I try the best I can to do the Father’s will, as Jesus himself tells us to do, which by the way, I never heard (read) anyone mention. Like I said, no one knows the Bible perfectly, even if it’s memorized word for word. We need to take into consideration the Bible as a whole, not in part, because to me at least, THAT’S dividing Jesus. As far as being “saved” is concerned, there will be people in heaven that we never expected to see as well as people not there that we thought we would see. So, instead of arguing, debating over it, let’s just wait until we meet the only one true judge and hear well done my good and faithful servant, enter into my kingdom. Then, and only then, will we be able to say as a fact that we are saved. In the meantime, let’s do the Father’s will and not judge each other, so that we won’t be judged, and pray for each other, as Jesus tells us to. If you feel differently, I suggest praying about it and studying the Word further, as I will not argue over the truth, the Word of God. I don’t believe, and know that Jesus wouldn’t do it, for according to His Word, He didn’t. Just food for thought. I love you all. God bless.
Awesome.
Im geeting confused with the diffrence between christian and lutharin. I think were thinkin more than we should as long as you belive in what happened and have neverwitnessed it your loved in gods eyes for your faith. I was born in a christian family. And the reason im still christian is because of prays that i noticed were answered. Rite away or through out time. I think if you belive in christ thats all you need. Theres no argueing between religons like say chritian or lutherin. If you believe you belive thats all you need to be saved. But dont take advantage of that by beliveing but living wrong try to do rite. He knows…
Hello Nick, you stated, “If you believe you belive thats all you need to be saved.” Please supply the NT scripture that states that “”all” you need to be saved is to believe”. Don’t we need to; just to mention one thing, repent? I can think of several things that NT scripture states we must do to be saved. Not even a non believer will argue this point. Repent? What does scripture say?
God bless
John 3:16. There is your verse. That’s why it’s, “good news.” Getting Baptized is not a prerequisite to salvation. We should be baptized but not getting baptized isn’t going to keep anyone out of heaven. If I hear “the word” and believe/receive by faith who Jesus is and what he accomplished, I’m going to heaven. If I get get struck by a stray bullet the next day and killed, therefore not getting baptized I’m still going to heaven. Loving everyone’s posts by the way. Good conversations.
Yet in Genesis 3 22 God said See! The man has become like one of us…like one of us…who is us? ?Father the Son and the holy ghost ..correct?
Lutherans do not believe in transubstantiation which is that the bread and wine become the actual body and blood of Jesus. Lutherans believe in consubstantiation that the stuff of Jesus is present along side of the bread and wine. This is scientifically true as well as doctrinally true. Some protestants believe that the communion supper is only a memorial. Lutherans and Catholics believe that it is more than that. However, Lutherans do serve grape juice as an option to those who receive communion.
There is an error in this article. Sue is correct: The Orthodox and Roman Catholic Church teaches transubstantiation. Martin Luther changed the Eucharistic celebration of the Mass to that of consubstantiation.
I second everything Tom has said. People, there shouldn’t be any disagreements between each other! The reason is because every answer is in The Good Book!!! Don’t go off of what you have heard from someone in the past, go off of GOD’S WORD! Psalm 118.8 It is better to trust in the Lord than to trust in man. And to “tim why” from previous post. How do you know that the thief wasn’t baptized? I don’t remember ever reading that in scripture. Don’t forget that John baptized people in the Jordan for the remission of sins.
May Christ be with you all! God Bless
Acts 11:26 says the DISCIPLES were called Christians. A Disciple is a follower of Jesus Christ and His teachings. Therefore ANY church that follows Jesus Christ AND His teachings are Christian if they conform to this Biblical example. The reason for the many churches are that they are families of Christian believers with different personalities and therefore Christians looking for a church home should go where they fit personally (assuming the Bible is honored and followed).
I really want to confess but not catholic can I
Confess Your Sins To The Lord & Have Faith In His Forgiveness!
I am Christian, faithfully and strong
Yeah, but the new law didn’t actually happen till after Jesus died and the curtain was torn in the temple. So, really the Theif didn’t have to be baptized cuz it was the old law. Also, James tells us that even the demons beleive and tremble, but they won’t be saved. James also tells us faith without works is dead. So, wouldn’t faith alone not be enough? The new testament tells us a lot about being baptized for the remission of our sins. I mean, the faith alone thing doesn’t make sence.
Well, like, what about the leper who was told to go bathe in the jordan 7 times? He could have believed and had faith whole heartedly that Jesus was the Son of God, but unless he did went in the Jordan 7 times, he was still gonna have that disease.
Baptism does not save….only allowing Christ to be your Lord and Savior will save you no act done by humans can have any effect on a person’s salvation. Baptizing babies is pointless! That is what is wrong with Lutheranism. And communion doesn’t forgive sins either! Read the Bible…don’t add things to it don’t leave things out..
correct, Jesus saves, not anything else nor anyone else
You just contradicted yourself.
Thank you very much, this is total lack of knowledge. Lutherans does not baptize babies.I got baptized when I was 14. Catholism rather requires batism of babies. There’s no set age for baptism in the church. It’s simple,”the earlier,the better”
Lutherans DO baptise babies. I was and so were my children. It is not a requirement, but they do baptise babies.
I feel such pity for you all, arguing, yet again, in the name of God. “Judge not lest ye be judged.”
Good for you Dixie!!!!!!!
Can you just imagine how Jesus must feel looking down at our petty squabbling over who’s bible words are correct. He did not give his life for us to have us arguing this way. Put your energy into making yourself more Christ like instead of worrying about what others do. It is not our job to judge. That is God’s and only God’s.
I am very grateful that God understands the sin nature of ALL of us. Not one of you out there is without sin, even when you become a Christian. Take inventory of your daily thoughts. It is a daily challenge to become more like Christ. If any of you feel that because you have become a Christian and you read God’s word daily you have become perfect, shame on you!!!
So everybody understands, Tom and Ray belong to a denomination called churches of Christ (they’ll likely fly off the handle). They vary in intensity, but overall come from the same man-made Restoration Movement. These are Christians (yes I called them Christians) who judge all of Christendom by their man-made hermeneutic. They will blast you with tons of proof-texted Scripture that they see through a homemade lens. Make no mistake folks, that man-made lens was crafted by names that you don’t find in the Bible…names like, Campbell, Stone, Scott, Lard, Hardeman, Harding, Lipscomb, etc. They will always play dumb here and pretend like they don’t know who these guys are, but every one of the doctrines that they use to show yours as heretical was created by the men mentioned. This you have chirch of Christ doctrines of men. Their hermeneutic causes them to apply tons of laws to the Gospel because they tirelessly hunt for approved example, direct command or necessary inference to substantiate their legalistic view and sophistry. Where does it say in the New Testament that we should try and apply a man-made formula to interpret God’s Word…it doesn’t. Now we all have doctrine and it is usually different in some way because men have spoiled it, even in my own tradition. But, church of Christ…wake up…your men were no more immune to infallibility as mine. Get it perfect before you begin excluding those from Christ’s Church. Stop using fallacies to make people feel small. When I say I believe that your 5 step plan of salvation is false, I’m stating that I disagree with your opinion on what Scripture means, but I cannot exclude you from being called Christian. Like you, I have Scriptural reference to every thing I believe.
If a denomination is a part of a whole, then take a look at how you’ve divided in your own sect and how you are pushing other followers of Christ away through your dogma. I love your comparison of Lutheran, Baptist and Christian doctrines. Talk about an ad-hoc way to argue. Where is the love that Christ commanded you to have?
Hello Trey, I believe you to be sincere in your comments, however, you made a mistake. That mistake was assuming that I am a member of the “Church of Christ”; I am not. The CoC though having honest intentions, are, in my opinion, too legalistic (at least those that I have met). They do not hold a patent on believing that we should follow all scripture and not “cherry pic” our favorites as some are in the habbit of doing. I am simply a follower of Christ, and a devout student of the scriptures. I do not believe that there will be any demoninations in the next life, therefore, I reject them now. Those that will be saved are those that obey the will of the Father not the doctrines of men such as Luther (mentioned in the title question).
Hello Trey, I believe you to be sincere in your comments, however, you made a mistake. That mistake was assuming that I am a member of the “Church of Christ”; I am not. The CoC though having honest intentions, are, in my opinion, too legalistic (at least those that I have met). They do not hold a patent on believing that we should follow all scripture and not “cherry pic” our favorites as some are in the habbit of doing. I am simply a follower of Christ, and a devout student of the scriptures. I do not believe that there will be any demoninations in the next life, therefore, I reject them now. Those that will be saved are those that obey the will of the Father not the doctrines of men such as Luther (mentioned in the title question). If this is a duplicate please forgive me. There was a glitch when I submitted my comment. God bless
Jesus said he didnt come to start a new religion, AND he was a Jew. CASE CLOSED.
I sort of agree with that. I think he kind of took the faith that the Old Testament shows and created a way to “organize” it. Thus creating the church and creating a way for anyone and everyone to practice the faith. Kind of like bee keepers. They will take the bees which would usually just create “nests” or whatever and then organized it into a way to produce more honey and make it easier to distribute to others, if our faith was like honey.
The truth:you are right Jesus never started religion but a relationship with him there is a huge difference between knowing about Jesus and actually knowing him personally. Also the eucharist wasn’t taught by Jesus the only thing that Jesus taught was communion
I’m a Christian and I thank God.
This is so silly to see because everyone thinks they’re right and that they have a better understanding of God than the other, but only God knows that. Even I have already commented on a few posts and I was just now thinking that while trying to help each other understand God more fully is great, I think we should do it with compassion instead of trying to speak over each other, which is the vibes I’m getting from this site. We each think we know God better than the other one and I’m sure most people who posted, including myself, still think that. Don’t judge each other please. Starting now, whenever you’ve read this, please try to understand each other more and say, “well here’s my interpretation of ____. Whatever Bible quote,“ instead of just going and saying, “no, what I’m saying is right and your wrong.” After all I think that no matter what type of Christian you are, maybe you’ll agree that Jesus didn’t help others understand scripture that way, so we shouldn’t either.
Anytime you make a theology, it has to be based on all scripture and not just one section.
The Bible clearly states that their is one mediator between God and Man and that is the Lord Jesus Christ. We do not need priest to intercede for us as we have direct access to God as a Child of God. There belief in Sola Gratia is not against other Christian’s as the writer says.
The Bible also says that the coming Messiah will come in the likeness of Moses and establishes a new and better covenant than of Old Covenant given to Moses. So though his earthly ministry was to mainly the Jews, his coming was to establish the Kingdom of God.
As some have stated, we need to be a cheerful giver to God. Whatever we feel as a hindrance, whether from other or not, we give with joyful heart.
Regarding Baptism, Jesus continued the baptism of repentance that John of Baptist was doing. It was a decision each person makes to be obedient to God. It is not another persons decision whether or not to be repentive and obedient. Therefore, if an infant cannot make that choice, it is not following the pattern set by Jesus.
Salvation does not come thru Baptism. We are saved by Grace. But once saved, we need to try to follow the pattern Christ set for us. Disobeying Baptism is one of free choice and not of sin. When we are saved we have become like Adam before his Sin. Adam’s sin was a sin of Disobedience. We are not exempt from walking a walk of Obedience once we are saved
Jesus instituted the Lord Supper before his death not after. Since that is the case, Jesus was figuratively describing the Holy Communion as his body and blood. We too should follow the pattern set by Christ.
People have said Christ established the Roman Catholic church. Look at History by reading the book of Acts how the church operated and moved. It was not the way it is in the Roman Catholic church.
As concerning the Priesthood of Christ, He become the last priest for us who offered not the blood of animals but by his own blood and make intercesions for us to the Father. In Hebrews 5:10. Called of God and high priest after the order of melchisedec. And in Hebrews 7:24 But this man,because he continueth forever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. (KJV)
Lutherans do NOT believe the wine and bread in communion are the literal blood and body of Christ. That is the Catholic belief of transubstantiation. We believe in the “real presence” of Christ in the meal. In a mystical unity, Christ comes to us “in, with, and under” the bread and the wine bringing us forgiveness of sins, life and salvation.
Please correct the error in paragraph #5 above.
When you think you know…you actually don’t know…Isaiah 55:8 an John 3:12 He is the carpenter who fixes things in our lives…He is the prophet who tells us everything is , that was, and is to come, He is the Son of God cause He tells us what the Father’s plan is for us, He is the Father which is God cause no one can do all these that are written in the Book of life and your life and my life except God He is the same yesterday,today, and forevermore…He changed not…the same question was asked before and Jesus answered on John 14:9 I am He…
I’m not arguing…cause vengeance is not mine but the Lord.read Scripture: Duetoronmoy 32:4, 1corinthians 10:4 He is our Rock, Isaiah 53:5 Jesus was in the old that is why He said before Abraham was is I AM John 8:58, Isaiah 9:6 saith He is the Everlasting Father it’s all over the Scriptures …that’s why He says if you look you shall find me.The truth will set you free. God bless you and your family in Jesus name.
There’s a misprint. You put “christian” where you should have put “Catholic” in the sentence about salvation by faith & grace alone. Mainstream Christians don’t believe they need a priest to save them.
For years I saw the judgments as Christ pointing a finger to me and saying goats, I want to be with the lambs. I’ve always been aware of my faults but now that I’m old it dawned on me Jesus wasn’t to be the judge! He is my defense lawyer! How happy I am to know Him as the one friend I count on.
The fact we are on here expressing the spices of Christianity means to me we all love our Lord , Jesus Christ , His Father, our living God and their Holy Spirit. The main entree is Jesus, we can use different spices and all of us still have a delicious meal . I grew up Baptist, I am now Catholic, my mother was Methodist, my father was Quaker and we all someday will be reunited kneeing and worshiping our precious Lord with the charsmantics being the loudest lol . Can’t wait to meet you all there .
We are saved by Grace through Faith manafest in works not manly works but Godly works like the baptism. If you do not follow the word as it says (do the Godly work) you are not saved by his grace. If you have Faith and follow the word and are baptised you are saved by his Grace
I wish to know more
Open Your Heart & Mind, Read The Bible, Find a Church That Teaches From The Bible & You Will KNOW!
You Have Already Stepped In The Right Direction…Let The Lord Lead You To Him & Eternal Life In Heaven!
Confess Your Sins To The Lord & Have Faith In His Forgiveness!
It is superstition to believe without testing. Without true faith, divine knowledge is not possible. Lack of divine knowledge in the deeds of human beings makes the faith and divine knowledge in their life useless. The saints have great importance in showing the right path to the wandering, but the condition is that the teacher should only be respected and Only GOD to be worshipped. Jesus never asked himself to be worshipped, and every time imparting wisdom, His finger pointed towards God, only to worship him and believe in him.
One more thing, “Worship cannot be in a crowded place but in a quiet place where a person is completely immersed in his love and faith for God, away from the noise and tensions of the world.”
Jesus was born to a virgin through inculcate conception; with no natural father. He was to be given the name Jesus; (which means to save)therefore He was more than a profit. He was God in human form. No man enters the kingdom of heaven unless he is born again. Born of the Spirit. (To understand this) Jesus died on the cross for our sins. We have all been made righteous; there is nothing more that we can do to add to his dying on the cross for our sins. We all have been forgiven from our sins. That is why He said,” It is finished”. We are joint heirs of God. That is the good news. We are saved. We just need to believe it! That is faith! All we need is the amount of a mustard seed! I was blind but now I see! Praise God! Keep it simple folks!
When John baptize Jesus, God confirm to him that Jesus was the son of God and the promised Messiah. After Jesus came up out of the water, Jesus saw the Holy Spirit descended from heaven in the form of a dove. A voice from heaven declared: “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.“ Jesus was more than a prophet. He was fully God in human form. God the Father sent God the Son who was filled with the power of God the Spirit. As part of the Trinity, the holy spirit filled Christ always, as Prophet, Priest, and King. The pinnacle of the entire Bible is Jesus. John the Baptist pointed to Him. God the father affirmed Jesus as His beloved Son. God calls people to repent and turn to Jesus. Matthew 3:16-17
Re: Communion as Body & Blood vs Presence
The article states that “In Holy Communion, Lutherans believe bread and wine to literally be the body and blood of Christ.” That is factually incorrect.
What the writer, Jim, refers to is called Transubstantiation and is a Catholic belief. Lutherans believe in Consubstantiation which means that Jesus presence is “in, under, and with” the normal elements of bread and wine (or juice). This is based in-part on how Lutherans understand the Bible (sola scripture) as God’s word. Because Jesus said this is His body and blood, then Jesus must therefore be present with it, though the elements remain normal bread and wine. The phrase “in, under, and with” comes directly from Martin Luther and stands in stark contrast to Calvinist beliefs who create their doctrine on eucharist emphasizing that Jesus is certainly not in, under, or with them.
Hope this helps!
I am Baptist by preference, but being Baptist don’t save me. I am saved by grace through faith in Christ. Good to know Lutheran’s believe the same. Therefore it isn’t the denomination that save us but our relationship with Jesus Christ.